Survival Entertainment, Friend or Foe? An exclusive interview with Cody Lundin

An opportunity recently presented itself to ask Dual Survival’s Cody Lundin for a formal interview of which he graciously accepted. Lundin is a professional survival instructor with over 25 years of experience. He has also worked within the television industry since the 1990’s both behind and in front of the camera. I hoped to learn more about Survival TV from his perspective, or as he later coined it, Survival Entertainment. I expected Cody to be honest; he always is, sometimes brutally.

NOBLE:  May 28th, 2014, USA Today published an article, Survival TV strips down, takes off. In that article, Discovery Network president Eileen O’Neill talked about their survival programming after the 2007 Bear Grylls (Man vs. Wild) hotel scandal, “The importance of authenticity is key for Discovery Channel,” since then, “the shows we’ve delivered are grounded in that.”

As a very recent host of Dual Survivor, would you agree with these statements from Discovery?

LUNDIN:  Whether something is authentic or not can only be known by someone who has experience in that something. Ms. O’Neill is a corporate executive, not an outdoor survival instructor. Therefore, she has zero credibility in defining this profession or anyone else’s profession as being portrayed as authentic or not. Using the world authentic for a network that is pursuing more and more scripted reality shows is a bold statement.

NOBLE:  You were the first one chosen to host Dual Survivor is that right?

LUNDIN:  Yes, that’s right. Keep in mind that the show is called Dual Survival. For some reason, Discovery is not aware of their shows correct name.

NOBLE:  Wow, ok…

LUNDIN:  But anyway, yes, they chose me first and then went on to find my partner for the show. This resulted in three chemistry tests overall before my first co-host was chosen. After the network eliminated Dave, I did two more chemistry tests to find my new co-host who was a Navy SEAL. He blew the deal with the network and so the production company did one more chemistry test to find Joe. All in all, I tested with more than twenty military guys, twenty-four or twenty-five I think.

A photo from the first Dual Survivor chemistry test.

Photo from the first Dual Survival chemistry test.

NOBLE:  You mean Joe wasn’t the first choice to be your new co-host?

LUNDIN:  No he wasn’t.

NOBLE:  I want to talk more about Dual Survival, but I know the focus of this interview, and why you agreed to do it at all was to address what you see as a growing problem with survival skills in the media, in how they’re being presented. I notice you use the term “Survival Entertainment.” What does this mean to you?

LUNDIN:  It’s my hope that through this interview people gain a greater understanding of the mythical power of media, how to crack its code of illusion, and to recognize the true qualities of a professional survival skills instructor. I use the term survival entertainment because unfortunately, that is how the profession of survival skills is being treated by the media, like a big game. Survival deals with whether people live or die, as the word implies. This dumbing down is happening not only on TV, but in movies, books, magazines, blogs, etc. I’m concerned that the public is being dangerously misled to believe that survival entertainment actors are qualified to teach survival skills. Misunderstanding entertainment for training and celebrity for credentials can and has gotten people killed.

NOBLE:  Are you saying that the majority of TV survival shows don’t showcase professional survival instructors?

LUNDIN:  Of course I am, haven’t you noticed? (laughs) It is painfully obvious to me and my peers. A professional mechanic can always spot a beginner mechanic or hobbyist or someone who is faking something for the camera. Any professional from any field can spot this. Experience, or the lack of it, can’t be faked. Unfortunately, in my industry, most people have no idea what a survival instructor really does, or should do, and there are several branches of survival training, just like there are several branches of the medical profession.

NOBLE:  What do you mean by that?

LUNDIN:  Remember when someone told you they were a doctor and that was enough? Now, it’s “what kind of doctor are you?” There are oodles of physicians in the yellow pages for my little town. There are foot doctors, eye doctors, skin doctors, heart doctors, lung doctors, bone doctors, allergy doctors, doctors for kids, doctors for older people, doctors for female issues, doctors for male issues, blah, blah, blah! While not as diversified, the survival profession is the same way. Modern survival is different from primitive living skills, which is different from urban preparedness, which is different from homesteading, which is different from wilderness living or “bushcrafting.” They all revolve around various aspects of self-reliance, just like all of the different doctors revolve around dealing with the human body. But one does not go to a foot doctor to remove a cataract. Even many survival instructors are unaware of the differences, and the media, not knowing the difference either, puts out whatever they think is valid. One of the biggest problems I see, even among the majority of survival instructors, is context. It is one thing to know a survival skill, it is quite another to recognize the correct context into how that skill should be implemented in an emergency scenario. This is critical if people want to live. The best way to have greater control of the context, into how to use hard and soft skills to defeat a survival situation, is through years of field experience and training. Many people have survived situations despite themselves, despite the mistakes they made, and fate, luck, karma, whatever you want to call it does play its role in whether people live or die. But training with skills in the proper context of the supposed emergency is always the best training option. Training intentions are very important when dealing with a professional in which people live or die based upon that training. How could it be any other way, right? A paramedic is trained in both how to maintain a patent airway and treat a lower extremity wound. Both are valid skills to know in emergency medicine. However, if the medic treats the nasty looking leg wound first, at the expense of gaining or maintaining a patent airway, their patient will die. The first-aid skills, although both valid in their own right, were done in the wrong order. The context was screwed up for the scenario and the patient dies. This lack of context is a huge problem not just on TV, but in all media regarding survival skills, including so called survival magazines. The author, producer, TV host or whoever, simply does not have the field experience to be able to put into context the survival skills they think they are teaching. This is true of many survival instructors too. And if survival instructors are unaware of the proper context in skills training and methodology, how in the hell do you expect a corporate executive to get it, or even care?

NOBLE:  You stress that wrong context is a major issue in survival training, even with other survival skills professionals. Did you see context problems with Dual Survival, and if so, did you try to do anything to change it? Also, do you see a context problem with other survival programming?

LUNDIN:  Dual Survival is a TV show based upon a modern outdoor survival scenario. It has the statistical three day or seventy two hour time line and has the hosts either self-rescuing, which is very rare, or being rescued by a third party. Sometimes this rescue comes in the form of trained Search and Rescue, such as the Florida episode in season two, or sometimes it was someone else, a rancher, or whatever. I helped develop the shows modern survival format, and worked with the original executive producers to help wrap their heads around this basic concept. You must remember that everyone I’m working with had no experience in outdoor survival, even from a TV production standpoint, much less from a personal or professional standpoint. The time line of three days was more of a budget thing than anything else, but it was valid nonetheless. I had one hand on the steering wheel and one foot on the brake the entire time I hosted and helped produce Dual Survival. I did this as I was the only one who had decades of back country experience actually doing these skills in the proper context with students, and who was aware of the difference between modern survival, primitive living, and urban preparedness, etc. Most other parties had their foot on the gas. Producers would come to me to run by their story lines for each episode and I would shoot down what had no context, or what was questionable for the scenario given. They learned early on not to ask me to do dumb stuff, things that were blatantly dangerous to the viewer as I would simply refuse. Whether my co-hosts decided to do these things was up to them. I was a professional survival instructor first, who had trained hundreds of people over the years on real field courses. I was a TV host a distant second. My first and main concern on Dual Survival was the viewer’s safety, not attempting to look like a bad ass. What not many people realize is Dual Survival was created in part to help make things right after the Man vs. Wild fiasco. In the early days of Dual Survival, the executives wanted as much realism as possible, with of course the entertainment value that must come from a TV show of this type. Most of the time, they would listen to me and I would help them shape the context of the show with real world experience. I have no idea what they did with my advice as I have never watched the show, but I did my part, and I did it with an iron fist of very little compromise. Why? Because people’s lives were on the line, my professional reputation was on the line. Not surprisingly, in season two, Dual Survival reruns were beating new Man vs. Wild shows in the ratings. When given the chance, the viewing public chose learning and caution over reckless drama.

NOBLE:  OK, I have to ask, why have you not watched your own show?

LUNDIN:  At first I didn’t watch because I didn’t want to get pissed off. I’m very picky about the skills. I take my job very seriously and I knew that no matter how hard the production company tried, they would screw things up with editing. Later on, it was much more fascinating to hear what other people thought about the show without my bias. I mean, I was there when the filming happened, but we shoot fifty to sixty hours for each forty odd minute show. Hundreds of hours get thrown on the edit room floor in a season. I have no idea how they arrange the content. Now, I simply have a negative taste in my mouth about the lack of leadership that caused the show to suffer. It’s always more fun to eat the meal the first time though, you know, rather than vomit and consume sloppy seconds.

NOBLE:  You were featured as the primitive skills guy on the show, but you say that Dual Survival is a modern survival skills show?

LUNDIN:  I was and it is. I don’t think to this day that the people I worked with realized there is a difference in intention, in context between modern survival, primitive living skills, urban preparedness, bushcrafting, and homesteading. In a modern survival scenario you are trying to get out alive, its short term. Obtaining rescue is the main intention. In a primitive living scenario, you are already home, living off the land. There is no rescue. They pigeon holed me as the primitive guy as they wanted greater contrast between me and my co-host. Discovery went so far as to brand me a naturalist without my permission or knowledge. John Muir is a naturalist; I am a professional survival skills instructor. They had no clue, and still don’t about the context we’re talking about here. Little did the network know, I am well versed in many forms of self-reliance training. I have retaught Native Americans how to make deadfall traps with natural materials, lectured to modern Search and Rescue teams about hypo and hyperthermia and keynoted a National disaster preparedness conference for local, state, and federal government employees in a ballroom at the Mirage in Las Vegas as examples. I did all of these things and much more before Dual Survival was a TV show. My first book, 98.6 Degrees: The Art of Keeping Your Ass Alive is a modern survival skills book. When All Hell Breaks Loose: Stuff You Need to Survive When Disaster Strikes is a book on urban preparedness. And yet I’m the primitive guy on TV. And yet that’s ok as I have been teaching primitive living skills since the late 1980’s. It’s the first skill set I learned. The difference is that I know the difference between these skills sets. Since I know the difference, I am well aware of the context in how these skills, if they should be blended, should play out in a scenario on camera or off. This is a very rare skill set to have, and it went unrecognized by nearly everyone I worked with.

NOBLE:  Can you give us an example of how this played out on camera or off?

LUNDIN:  I could give dozens of examples going back years on various TV shows. One of the context issues on Dual was hunting and food in a short term survival scenario. Lack of food is not the concern in a modern short term survival situation. Dual Survival is a modern survival skills show as we have said. No one, I repeat, no one has starved to death in three days. It’s a physical impossibility. Yet why the emphasis on hunting? Part of this was network ignorance of how things really happen in the field, and what the priorities are for short term survival. Part of this was the need for drama for the show as it would be hard to eke out multiple seasons while staying completely pure to modern survival skills. Part of the drama was primitive hunting weapons. I talked them out of me using a bow and arrow, atlatl, and other complex compound hunting weapons as the context was ridiculous. It wasn’t believable in the show as it was too time consuming to make, the context was wrong. I agreed to be a part of certain things as I do feel it’s important for people to learn how to procure calories in the field. Not for a modern survival situation, but in the context of hunting and gathering, or primitive skills. We needed to blend the context to a point in order to have a show. Where I drew the line was on the larger animals. I literally lobbied the network to cut down on the larger animals for the show as it was ridiculous and had no context in what this show was about. This was not a hunting show. It was not sound training methodology and the context was wrong. It set a bad example. What was applicable were simple gatherings techniques, subtle calorie opportunities to help a survivor keep their glucose levels stable, the random opportunities that sometimes come up in the field. The long story short is I appeared like the guy that couldn’t hunt on the show. I was willing to take this ego hit for the greater good of setting the proper training example, but man, it was tough to see these dumb asses posting this and that about how I never brought any meat to the table. I mean, I had been teaching primitive trapping since the early 90’s! The plus side is that someone who is this gullible about how TV works becomes the meat in a nasty long term grid down situation! (laughs). In the end the message is always more important than the messenger. I have dedicated my life to teaching self-reliant skills, it’s how I live my life, quite truly a part of my spiritual path. Getting crap from uninformed people is simply par for the course, and TV can really bring out the trolls.

NOBLE:  Did Discovery vet your survival credentials before they hired you for Dual Survival?

LUNDIN:  At no time, ever, was I asked to prove the experience I had to get on that show. Think about that for a minute. I was to be launched to international fame as a professional survival instructor from a profession that directly deals with whether people live or die, and they didn’t even ask me for a (expletive) job resume. I have friends that need to show a professional resume with multiple references to even be considered to rent a house! It is always the job of the employer to vet the employee for credibility and experience. Especially if the employee is setting a global example of safety for millions of people for God’s sake…but it never happened.

NOBLE:  You’re kidding me…

LUNDIN:  I wish I were.

NOBLE:  Did anyone have any survival skills experience?

LUNDIN:  I worked for a network that had no survival skills experience, and a production company that had no survival skills experience who were both responsible for creating a survival show. Scary. The chemistry tests, as I mentioned earlier, were just that, chemistry tests. They were designed to see how two people reacted to each other, whether they had chemistry or not, not to prove the skill set they had or didn’t have. No one on Dual Survival was hired because they knew a ton about survival skills, including me. Credibility was not the concern for the network or the production company, chemistry was. And while I am well aware that this is a television show, it was once again, a show that dealt with people’s lives and personal safety. Due to other people’s lack of experience, they leaned on me heavy and virtually all story ideas went by me. As I said, I quite literally helped develop Dual Survival in the early days and worked to help produce and consult for the show until I was fired into the fourth season. Keep in mind that I had much TV experience before Dual Survival, both on and off camera. I would routinely work with producers to help them know what to shoot, how to shoot it, and why. I also did two pilot shows for Discovery called Lost in the Wild in 2003, before Man vs. WildSurvivorman, or any of their other regular survival programming.

NOBLE:  So knowing what you did about TV in general, and what they might do to your profession, why accept the job for Dual Survival at all?

LUNDIN:  Because the greatest way to create change is to be a part of the change. Instead of telling a few hundred Aboriginal Living Skills School students a year to not drink their piss, I could now tell hundreds of thousands of people in one night! I knew I could correct a lot of the dangerous crap that was being featured on survival shows by people who were not real survival instructors. Second, I could teach self-reliant skills and methodology that works based upon many years of experience with hundreds of students in remote back country terrain. I wanted the viewer to be given necessary facts so that informed choices could be made in regards to survival training. I mean, I am a professional survival skills instructor. Why not be on a show about survival skills? And yet I knew going in that there would be compromises as all TV shows are produced, hence the television producer.

NOBLE:  Are you saying that Dual Survival is a scripted show?

LUNDIN:  Discovery and Original Media have already done that with their behind the scenes “let’s try to defame Cody” episode. Did they need to show nearly a dozen people standing in the snow in Norway, one of whom was holding a dead rabbit in a bag, the same rabbit that hadn’t yet appeared on the show?

Screen shot from the Dual Survival episode, "Journey's End to a New Beginning."  Note the rabbit to the right of Cody's ice pick.  Close-up in next screen shot.

Screen shot from the Dual Survival episode, “Journey’s End to a New Beginning.” Note the rabbit to the right of Cody’s ice pick. Close-up in next screen shot.

Close-up of the rabbit just pulled from a bag before filming the scene.

Close-up of the rabbit just pulled from a bag before filming the scene.

This poorly conceived episode was so poorly received by fans not buying their bullshit about me that Discovery had to disable the public comments section on the Dual Survival Facebook page. Fans were calling them out left and right, as they should have. Discovery also scrubbed the page of all positive comments about me. According to some, people are using pseudonym facebook accounts to actively slander and defame me. No one likes to be lied to…it was insulting to fans and they hammered Discovery. A TV shows fan base is how the network makes money via ads. They literally bit the hands that fed them, apparently thinking that Dual Survival fans were too stupid to realize the truth. Second shot to their foot, right? But they shot themselves in the foot a third time by jeopardizing their options with other people who may have worked for them on other survival programs. The survival skills community is very tight, and very small, we know each other, or at least of one another. Other instructors who have known me for 25 years are not impressed by what Discovery tried to do to me. They also now realized what could happen to them, and they are gun shy. What this means is that credible people, people who actually make their living through survival skills are avoiding networks to protect their livelihoods. What this also means is that people who have nothing to lose, who are not qualified and have little experience with survival skills will appear on TV as the next expert even more so than they are now. And who loses? The viewer, learning piss poor survival methodology and skills that could end up killing them or their loved ones. Not a smart business move, and for what, to attempt to explain my absence from the show when I refused to lie to my fans?

NOBLE:  Lie to your fans?

LUNDIN:  Yes, Discovery offered to pay me to lie to my fan base. They suggested several times that I tell fans on the original behind the scenes episode that I quit the show to pursue my survival school. Of course I refused. I don’t want to lie to one person let alone millions, especially on a show about safety. This is a serious point that people are failing to realize. Survival skills deal with people’s safety, with their very lives. Having an entertainment show that features a life or death profession is a grave responsibility. As I have mentioned, having the word survival next to the word entertainment is quite sick. There is nothing entertaining about watching a loved one die of hypothermia. How about surgery entertainment? We could create a show called Dual Doctors, have people as hosts who aren’t really doctors, have them cutting on a patient, naked of course, and watch the fun. While George Clooney played the part of a physician on TV, common sense dictates that he should not perform life threatening surgery on a loved one, or God forbid start a school to teach others how to be a doctor, ala Bear Grylls. Had Mr. Clooney endorsed medical gear mass produced in Asia to sell in big box stores based upon his TV show, many people would be dead and he would be in jail. While medical doctors are governed and held to rigorous standards and a code of ethics that protect the general public, the survival skills industry offers no such protections. It remains a buyer beware industry, and unscrupulous individuals and entertainment companies are all too willing to take advantage of this fact. If there were reality shows on the medical profession, there would be outrage as it’s a profession that deals with people’s lives. So why the acceptance of reality shows on the survival profession, which also deal with people’s lives?

NOBLE:  What do you think will happen if survival shows keep trending toward scripted sensationalism with unqualified people?

LUNDIN:  More dead people. Several people have already died trying to replicate some of the dumb stunts passed off as survival training on survival TV shows. I put them in a folder as part of my job is to collect information such as these unfortunate mishaps. The last one I’m aware of was a guy who died in Scotland, in a stone building no less, who died of hypothermia. He had written an itinerary before leaving saying he was going to try to live-off-the land for a month as he had seen Bear Grylls do on a TV episode based in Scotland. Let me repeat. He died of hypothermia, in a building. This person didn’t even know how to properly dress for being outside, yet felt confident enough to try to live off-the-land based on what he had seen on a scripted TV show. Some would argue that this is the gene pool at work, and I can’t argue with that as anyone who would trust their life to what they see on reality television shouldn’t breed. But the larger problem with this is the dangerous training methodology given on this show that gave this person the false confidence to feel like they knew what they were doing. This is only a microcosm of what is happening globally at a very accelerated rate. Shoddy survival programming is building incorrect training methodologies into inexperienced people whether they realize it’s happening to them or not. These incorrect and dangerous methodologies, can, have, and will directly and indirectly cause more people to die. Not only are many of the survival skills on shows faked, they are faked incorrectly, and as I mentioned earlier the context of how these skills are used in the overall story line are not correct either. Think about this, there are millions of people all over the planet that are being exposed to dangerous fiction couched in the sheep’s clothing of preparedness non-fiction. It is better to have no survival training at all than to have poorly scripted, inaccurate, out of context, highly dramatized information screaming into someone’s head from a television set. Not only does this information cause people to have a false sense of reality about what they think can be accomplished in the woods, it infects their physical preparations in how they pack, what they pack and the preparedness plans they leave, if any, for their next outdoor adventure. But it gets worse, these false teachings, this imagery, can then be remembered and activated under the stress of a real time survival scenario. Imagery is a very powerful and impressionable teacher and imagery is what TV is all about.

NOBLE:  Gene Fear, in his book, Surviving the Unexpected Wilderness Emergency!, states that, “talk about survival must be hypothetical because each situation will be different, and every person will react differently.” What is being taught for survival on TV, and other outlets, comes across very linear. As the host says, “If you find yourself in this situation, you NEED to (blank).” Survival and survival knowledge is not linear in nature, is it?

LUNDIN:  Variables kill people. There are two things that have the greatest number of variables on the planet. Human nature, meaning human physiology and psychology under stress, and Mother Nature. Both of these wild cards are front and center in every survival scenario on Earth. These limitless variables are what makes teaching survival skills so complex, so delicate, and why it’s so (expletive) important to have a competent instructor. People do not understand this. Think about it, the human body is extremely complex, and the physician that tries to quote practice medicine on the body has a staggering amount of variables to contend with. But this same physician is typically in a comfy indoor sterile environment, with climate controlled whatever, nice equipment, people to help, a medial degree of experience, running water, power and whatever they need. Imagine if they were scared, cold, hungry, being rained on, lost, windblown, navigating treacherous terrain as lightning bolts light up the sky, while being hypothermic with a broken wrist? The survivor has all of the complexities of psychological fear while dealing with the physical body in a wilderness environment filled with limitless variables. And there are people who feel that because they have taught a few Boy Scouts, have a Facebook page and a survival blog, that they are competent to be a survival instructor…and worse, the blog and Facebook pages are how these talent scouts find the next TV expert.

NOBLE:  We’ve talked at length about how survival based programming can literally help kill people, or at the very least create a false sense of security with poor planning strategies. Is there anything good that you see about survival programming on TV?

LUNDIN:  Absolutely! The survival skills aren’t the problem, it’s the people putting the shows together. Like I’ve said, big city corporate executives and producers that have no outdoor skills, and yet have complete control over what they think this profession is about are the ones doing the damage. The blood is ultimately on their hands, just like it would be if they did a hatchet job reality show about the medical profession. When your programming deals with people’s health and safety, the bar should be set very high. That is not the case. On the positive, I have received hundreds of letters, mostly from little kids who have found a new love in nature from watching me on TV. I have received many letters where little boys and little girls tell me how many frogs they have saved from the swimming pool, that they love to go barefoot, that their parents take them out camping now, and on and on. What blows me away is that many of these kids are conscious of safety, of taking things slow, of respecting the planet. They literally latch onto my persona and because I am trying to be respectful, so are they. It’s a beautiful thing. I have also received emails from people who have used something I did on the show and it has saved their life in a real survival scenario. This is the biggest reward a survival instructor can have! And not surprisingly, it’s typically not a hard skill per se, but the psychology of what I do on the show, careful, methodical, calm, planning and what have you. They have not died, in their words, because they remembered to stay calm in a terrifying situation because they saw me be calm on TV. While this is no surprise to me, it should be a wakeup call to all these TV networks desiring reckless bullshit on a survival show.

NOBLE:  With all of the nonsense out there, what should people look for when trying to find a reputable survival instructor?

LUNDIN:  The core focus of any professional survival instructor is to mitigate risk. Survival programing that repeatedly creates risk for the viewer is your red flag that you are watching an actor, not a real instructor or someone who has sold out their profession and integrity for money and fame. Do not think for a minute that just because someone appears on a TV show that they know what they are doing. It is quite the opposite. Remember that I was never asked for any proof of the experience I had, they didn’t care. Beyond the television BS, I have a link on my web site called choosing a credible survival instructor that details several qualities and traits to look for when shopping around for possible instructors in the non-fiction world.

NOBLE:  I appreciate the time you took for this interview. With all that has been said, would you consider doing another survival show on TV?

LUNDIN:  As far as more TV, in the right context, with people who aren’t (expletive), of course I’m interested. I want to get away from the phony dick measuring contest and I have a new survival show concept and would like to talk to other networks about it. I even have co-hosts lined up.

NOBLE:  Are the co-hosts people we know in the field, other survival instructors perhaps?

LUNDIN:  Who said they were human?

 

About Chris

Chris Noble is the founder of MasterWoodsman.com and Woodsmoke Camping Company. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Forestry and has worked as a Registered Forester and Certified Burn Manager in several states. Chris is also a Wilderness First Responder. Since the late 90’s, he has been “practicing primitive” skills and taking lessons from several well-known Master Woodsmen from around the country. Happily married, he enjoys passing what he learns to others, especially his 2 children, Emerson and Duncan.

123 Responses to Survival Entertainment, Friend or Foe? An exclusive interview with Cody Lundin

  1. Drmetalman@aol.com'
    Rick June 26, 2014 at 1:17 pm #

    I watched several shows………………………I have 0 survival skills but……………….I can usually read people pretty well and I really had trouble liking Cody; he is quite the know it all as we see even in this interview……….not a good quality trait………….maybe Cody ould have saw the BS when it was called Dual survivor and he was alone……………..and the next fact also screams that maybe Cody was the problem….25+ military experts until he could find one he could ALMOST get along with? Read between the lines!

    • Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm #

      Your a dumbass..

      • Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 8:45 pm #

        I agree with the dumbest comment. Cody is the real deal. And made dual survival successful.

        • ajavelinrose@hotmail.com'
          Andrea June 27, 2014 at 7:00 am #

          Cody was the best thing to ever happen to that show. He never waivered from his beliefs and he took things methodically and slow. Now as for his military trained , overly dramatic, rude and overly gun hoe partner Joe… I had absolutely no faith in his arrogant ways of survival. Really drinking your own piss???? Your body expels it as waste your body no longer needs…DUMBASS!!!

      • snow4960@hotmail.com'
        Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 9:03 pm #

        Rick, you mention the word military, like these guys are suppose to be some type of expert. Military personnel are not necessary taught survival skills. They are sent into situations where they carry all there own supplies and and they are taught how to cook these items on a camp fire. This does not make them a survival expert. Yes they know how to do exciting stuff like abseiling, and building camp fires. If these military personnel do learn any survival skills, it is because the military have called in such “Survival Experts” to teach them such. It is not taught to them by the military. Military only teach killing and evading capture skills. As Cody Lundin said, these TV producers and unfortunately also many others, through the likes of FB and Youtube etc, show the context completely out of field, with how survival should be carried out. Remember one will die 3 hours without warmth, 3 days without water, 3 weeks with out food (depending on the situation), hence while trapping and hunting skills are useful, they are not mandatory in a survival situation, unless one is lost for more than a week.

        • bradypatterson@yahoo.ca'
          Brady July 7, 2014 at 5:18 pm #

          The whole military comment really rings true for me. I have the utmost respect for the armed forces and what they do, especially since I’m not willing to do it. Thank you for doing what you do.

          Recently I had the chance to spend the majority of week on a “survival” training. As part of it we were partnered up. Initially this was a 3 man private group as me and two close friends regularly go deep into the remote Rockies of Canada. We wanted to train as a group to be able to work better as a team in case something went wrong.

          At the last minute we ended up adding a 4th member to the training. He was completely unknown to us but welcomed in. A US Ranger, with 13 deployments, according to my memory. We talked at length about his training since we were all curious why a highly trained soldier would take such a course. His reply was because they don’t learn it in the military. Some basic stuff of course but he explained that most of the time they are on base, rarely leaving for more that 24 hours and in that scenario they are flying or driving to location and returning when the job is complete. I learned some great things from him, mostly about mentality, and some great nav tips. The survival stuff we learned together. I’m honoured to have spent some time with him.

          As for the above, great interview with Cody Lundin and I’ve rarely heard someone take the time to distinguish the importance of context. Authenticity and honesty isn’t always the most politically correct, but sure as hell beats dying in a stone house. Everyone can teach us something, some how to do it, others how not to. Thanks for some of the how to’s Cody and thanks to Chris for this post and the work you do.

      • jamie010384@yahoo.co.uk'
        Yuup June 26, 2014 at 9:29 pm #

        he really is a dumb ass hahah

      • Anonymous June 27, 2014 at 4:33 pm #

        You ‘re*

        • Grammar Nazi September 3, 2014 at 2:26 am #

          Thank you, I thought no one else had noticed…

    • Cameronmartinwood@gmail.com'
      Cameron June 26, 2014 at 1:50 pm #

      You have a horrible ability to read somebody if you think that Cody Lundin is a “know it all” Did you read the article or interview at all? Dealing with producers, and a plethora of TV executive big wigs that know absolutely nothing about general survival skills in any setting creating a survival skills television show and passing on incorrect information to people that will get them killed…. I am glad Cody took the character hit from idiots like you to teach people watching actual. tangible skills that will be able to assist them in emergencies…. instead of “quick we have to kill this animal that’s not bothering us because we have been out here 8 hours and I need 6000 calories for 2 days” you’re an idiot… and your opinion is completely invalid.

    • Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 2:18 pm #

      You sound like one of those Discovery channel trolls.

      • Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 3:40 pm #

        Exactly!

    • rlundin@tampabay.rr.com'
      Robin June 26, 2014 at 4:13 pm #

      As I saw it- It was Joe Tadi that was the know it all. And from watching a few shows without Cody, Joe is still being the know it all. The new person Matt is very passive and agrees to do it Joes way. Too much drama for me. I just want to learn the basics of survival.

      • JESSICA June 26, 2014 at 10:59 pm #

        I CONCUR

      • ajavelinrose@hotmail.com'
        Andrea June 27, 2014 at 7:03 am #

        Agreed!

      • James June 27, 2014 at 1:50 pm #

        I cannot stand Joe, and I’m a former Marine. Guys like Joe give military guys a bad reputation of being hot headed, know it all, over the top types and we’re not all like that.

        Also, when Joe speared the boar, then grimaced for the camera, then the guys on the behind the scenes episode said it wasn’t played up for the camera…do they really think people buy into that bs? The way Joe hunts yells volumes to the inexperience and and lack of reverence he possesses.

        I like Matt, but it makes me question his ethics that he decided to work with the idiots at Discovery and not stand beside his sisters and brothers in protest of the smearing of the knowledge and arts.

        I laugh every time I pass by one of Grylls’ trinkets for sale in the stores. Just that guys voice is enough to make me want to not survive.

        Keep the course Cody, you’re a comforting light in the dark world of corporate idiots endangering the lives of others. Keep shining bright Cody!

        • TimeHasCome June 28, 2014 at 12:40 am #

          Well put James.

        • Anonymous July 19, 2014 at 8:33 am #

          Your the most skilled!!!

    • Wuingo@hormail.com'
      Akimofro June 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm #

      People who say “I can read people really well” are usually dumbasses…no need to continue reading your post.

    • ted.wagner@gte.net'
      Ted June 26, 2014 at 4:42 pm #

      An “Anonymous” commenter calls you a dumbass..that says what its worth…

      Rick I agree with you and felt the same way and still do. Shorts and socks(or bare feet) in the winter in a “survival” situation as an instructor is an example of “saving lives” …give me a break. It’s crazy!

      • Chris June 26, 2014 at 4:54 pm #

        Passing along this YouTube Video from one of the most respected outdoor survival instructors living today, Mors Kochanski. In the video he speaks to using wool socks alone in a winter emergency.

        • ted.wagner@gte.net'
          Ted June 26, 2014 at 5:12 pm #

          Thanks Chris, very well done and interesting experiment by Mr. Kochanski. He seemed to indicate it as an emergency measure only and I am interested in those socks now. He was wearing the appropriate outer wear for the conditions, pants.

          Thanks again.

          • Chris June 26, 2014 at 5:19 pm #

            Thanks Ted. For what it’s worth, I have done the same in just huaraches, which is virtually barefoot. Any quality WOOL socks should work, just have varying sizes. I usually get by with two thick pairs, one large, one XXL. And I will let one particular pair serve as the outside letting just that pair worn out by the brush, saving the other pair(s) for insulation. Thanks again.

      • Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 9:01 pm #

        NOT WEARING SHOES OR SOCKS. IS HIS CHOSEN way of life…….he knows HIS BODY, WHAT IT CAN TAKE, AND WHAT IT CAN’T. WHy is everyone making such a big deal about no shoes….look at all the people in the south, lots of them prefer to go shoeless too Check out the guys credentials….HE’S LEGIT

        • Mmartinjd@gmail.com'
          Mark June 27, 2014 at 1:05 pm #

          I live in the US South and have my entire life. I don’t know a single person who goes barefoot, but thanks for the stereotype!

        • ted.wagner@gte.net'
          Ted June 28, 2014 at 4:20 pm #

          Cody has put himself up as a “teacher” for survival, and what is the example he sets…don’t wear the proper clothes for conditions. It bad teaching and its wrong.

          If I had to pick someone, from the list of TV survivalists, to survive with he would be near the bottom of the list. I do not know him personally and can only form my opinion based on what I’ve read and what I have viewed on Dual Survival but I think I would be doing most of the work. He can start a fire great though.

          • Anonymous August 1, 2014 at 12:28 pm #

            Most “survival” situations don’t allow for proper preparation. He’s merely illustrating what can be done with available resources.

            What is your reasoning behind the idea that you would be doing most of the work? Is it because he’s slow and methodical and likes to think things through instead of diving in head first like the knuckleheads he was paired with?

        • gohiway280z@cox.net'
          hiway280z August 5, 2014 at 12:28 am #

          Agree. While the majority of us could not go bare foot or wear less clothes as he does it is a way of life for him and he is conditioned for it. With all the places they have been I never saw him with cut up bruised feet.If I recall correctly he did one time make something to put under his feet so he knows his body and when he needs to do something different in certain conditions. And was able to come up with a way to make something work. He did not come across as a know it all. He has skills and there is nothing wrong with him stating he has them. Most of us are good at something and say so.

    • thomorris@hotmail.com'
      Thomas June 26, 2014 at 5:38 pm #

      How can you call Cody a know-it-all when you admitted in your second line that your a know-nothing. Obviously anyone who knows anything would seem like a know-it-all to you. Get your facts in order before commenting. As for the 25+ military experts…the problem is stated in the description ” military experts” not “survival experts”. I’m ex-military myself…and learned zero survival skills while serving. That is not to say “special units” don’t receive survival training, but its not primitive, long term or anything more that “get out alive”.

      • ted.wagner@gte.net'
        Ted June 28, 2014 at 6:40 pm #

        zero survival skills…that must have been some awesome military training Cody…I mean sir

    • stever@futora.net'
      John_Doe June 26, 2014 at 7:55 pm #

      Rick,
      You said it all in the second sentence. You should have stopped after the word “skills”.

      Well done for taking nothing away from his core message though, that took some serious “skills”.

    • Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 8:57 pm #

      dude, YOU’RE a dumbass if you think Cody Lundin is a “know it all” the guy has 20 some odd years of training and experience. He’s an instructor….

      • ted.wagner@gte.net'
        Ted June 28, 2014 at 6:41 pm #

        I have 30 years experience flying in a plane, does that make me a pilot?

    • jamie010384@yahoo.co.uk'
      Yuup June 26, 2014 at 9:30 pm #

      You are incredible stupid, i’m amazed you can read.

    • jamie010384@yahoo.co.uk'
      Yuup June 26, 2014 at 9:32 pm #

      Rick , read between the lines – you are amazingly stupid and wrong on ever point you made. The shows called dual survival not dual survivor, that above all else shows how little you are paying attention.

    • FireShelterWater@gmail.com'
      Oliver North June 27, 2014 at 1:37 am #

      Rick is just another Teti pseudonym (look it up in a dictionary Joe) trying to defame Cody again, and failing again. I don’t know why he bothers, I heard he’s already been replaced for season 5. Everyone sees him for the fraud that he is. What a clown.

    • James June 27, 2014 at 1:34 pm #

      Rick, you’re an idiot if that is what you get from Cody. Hope you don’t spawn.

    • TimeHasCome June 28, 2014 at 12:37 am #

      I have learned far more from Cody than Joe . Joe is dumb as box of hammers

    • Anonymous June 28, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

      Maybe just maybe you think Cody acts like a “know it all” because he actually DOES know what he’s talking about unlike these piss poor excuses for survival experts that Cody was referring to. How anyone on God’s green earth could irresponsibly give out these fake shows and pass them off as legit in every way could live with themselves is beyond me, especially knowing people have died because of their need for good ratings on t.v. Where has responsibility gone and being held accountable for ones actions especially when lives have been lost?!?! I’m behind Cody Lundin on this 100%, he is a REAL instructor that has morals and scruples and it’s WRONG to chastise him for it!!!!

    • pbemolleja@hotmail.com'
      elmolle June 30, 2014 at 6:54 am #

      what a noob…

    • zinn21@sbcglobal.net'
      Don July 2, 2014 at 6:13 pm #

      I have a problem taking anyone seriously as an expert “Survivalist” roaming through deserts, jungles, glaciers wearing no shoes.

    • siliconshoctaw@gmail.com'
      billy July 3, 2014 at 2:20 am #

      You can read people well??? Laughable

    • hayesperry748@gmail.com'
      hayes July 8, 2014 at 1:39 pm #

      Amen to that, he strikes me as a prima donna that must always be catered to because of his self importance. The only thing dangerous or unhealthy I have seen him do is eat worms, grasshopper and raw fish, the danger being parasites. Dave did everything the first 2 seasons and I am sure Joe did the next season.
      I guess Cody threatened to quit one time too many, now he is being a crybaby, he trashed Dave and now KARMA has caught up with him.
      He has threatened to sue Discovery; I hope that he will, I would love to see all the outtakes they have of Cody showing the petty man he is.

    • WildWings2@gmail.com'
      Rich July 13, 2014 at 1:29 pm #

      The last posting I read that read as this one does was a ghost post by Joe Teti.
      Let me guess, you really like him and think he’s legit. Right?
      Cody comes across with an arrogance of one who is an alpha type, and who has knowledge within and of themselves.
      What he shows is a give-no-quarter confidence on his principals, and a knowing that he can back up what he says. Ever read an interview with Bruce Lee? Not an actor talking, rather a doer.
      And he didn’t have the issues with 25 military, the show did compatibility tests. Read it again.

    • james@english.com'
      James July 14, 2014 at 6:22 pm #

      I could easily see going through 25 military people to find one who I could get along with in a difficult situation. The military mentality and survival mentality are very different things.

    • Anonymous July 23, 2014 at 2:56 pm #

      Joe Teti, is that you?

    • Anonymous August 12, 2014 at 1:43 am #

      Dear god Chris learn how to spell. If you are going to misspell a word then at least misspell it wrong the same way. Dear god that was some distracting reading. Grammar and spelling not withstanding good interview, on a 4th grade level. Reminded me of when I did the school news show in 4th & 5th grade.

  2. Cherri1976@hotmail.com'
    Cherri Megasko June 26, 2014 at 1:19 pm #

    Excellent! The risks that hosts take on some of these shows are simply ridiculous. Their strategy is indeed sensationalism – not survival. Impressive and poignant interview.

  3. marladalton16@gmail.com'
    marla dalton June 26, 2014 at 1:26 pm #

    Thanks for the infomitive interview… I knew that the show was over stepping with unrealistic bs…I told my friends before you came off the show that I could see an end in site..it was not what it should of been…I love ya cody!!!! Hope u get new show soon…thank you..marla dalton

    • marchabrazo@ameritech.net'
      Coyote Hermano June 26, 2014 at 11:47 pm #

      Cody, your comments were a confirmation of how much smoke and mirrors was popping up on the show once Mr. Tadi was added for the vet crowd and for more DRAMA, I did feel it went down from the good-natured differences in the first season to a clash of cultures. We learned from you because the skills are real and you’re a true teacher.

  4. peterjackstadt@yahoo.com'
    peter June 26, 2014 at 1:27 pm #

    Thank you!

  5. dmittie@yahoo.com'
    Dee Mittie June 26, 2014 at 1:27 pm #

    I agree 1000% with what Cody has said in this interview and I sincerely hope there ARE changes made in
    ‘survival’ television. It’s become a farce for show and it’s a deadly combination of false bravado and misinformation. I would dearly love to see Cody bring a new light to real information regarding what to do in a survival situation and in what context they should be done. I lived by the White Mtns in New England, there wasn’t a single season where some azzclown wasn’t getting themselves in trouble no matter what season, the weather is constantly unpredictable and hikers/bikers and weekend ‘survivalists’ were either over confident or lacking practical skills. All the best to Cody ~ keep up the good works and stay true to the skills!

  6. bryanna@bryannarusher.com'
    Bryanna June 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm #

    Awesome, thank you both.

  7. ShersL84bed@aol.com'
    Sher June 26, 2014 at 1:58 pm #

    Interesting interview. Not sure that I believe Cody never watched even one of the shows. This to me, shows a level of ignorance in itself. I liked watching Cody on tv and was a fan, but this seems like an easy out to say he never watched the show once. Now he can pounce all over them without having to take responsibility on his part.
    Another thing that irritates me, is when he says someone shouldn’t breed because they believed what they watched on a survival reality show, very crass.

    • mathiue777@gmail.com'
      Matt June 26, 2014 at 7:29 pm #

      Speaking your mind should be a value not a slam. Thats the issue with PC ‘merica

  8. Wanderingone@comic.com'
    Clint H June 26, 2014 at 1:58 pm #

    I really appreciate your getting this interview with Cody Lundin. It was nice to get his honest perspective of both the fiasco of his being let go from DS and also some behind the scenes truthfulness about what was being presented. Glad he mentioned BGrylls MvW fiascos too.

  9. tina@relianceoutdoorsupply.com'
    Tina Freeman June 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm #

    Chris…thanks for what you do here! And, thanks for sharing with the public the true Cody!
    I’ve been through 3 week long Aboriginal Living Skills Courses. I feel like I can say I know a little about Cody’s integrity…he’s the real deal!!! 2008 pre-Dual, the first course with my middle son was to “undo” his TV idea of what survival was about. At 14, he asked me to give him a backpack and let him loose in our Chihuahuan Desert for a week. After I pulled myself down from the ceiling, we signed up for the ALSS Arizona Combo. Now he knows enough to keep himself alive and potentially others! I took my youngest son years later to the same course, knowing the reality check it would provide! In time, and with their continued practice this Mom can rest easy knowing her boys will always make it back home :o)

    • Chris June 26, 2014 at 2:56 pm #

      Thank you Tina. Really appreciate the feedback. We make every effort here to provide reputable sources of information. Not just with blog articles, but as a repository of schools, books, events, and more in the hopes it provides information for a safer and more enriching experience outdoors. That’s great what you did with your son by the way! Thanks again! Chris

  10. Angeladuling@gmail.com'
    Angie June 26, 2014 at 2:25 pm #

    I respect Cody and his skills. I was slightly disappointed that he lumped in several Tv survivalist in with the likes of Joe and Bear. There are others out there that give good information. People need to know some survivalist have different means to “survive”. Some work some might not. But to me it is all knowledge. And it is more knowledge than I had before. I pride myself on being of moderate intelligence, and know a STUPID risk to benifit ratio while “surviving”. If I get lost, I would never NEVER jump into a fast, cold moving river cause I can make “better” time. But between the survivalist (Cody, Mykel and Ruth Hawke and Les Shroud) I can make a distillery to make water. I have skills to make a fire and what woods work best. To me that is an ASSEST in survival. Not jumping in rivers, jumping across deep ravines, killing a HUGE boar…… Even a little survival skills is better than none, we just need to be diligent to know benifit from survival sensationalism shown on some TV shows.

  11. Saw_42066@yahoo.com'
    Sha June 26, 2014 at 2:48 pm #

    I watch the show, and I was disappointed when Cody was no longer a part of it. What he said about having to leave the show, and not being willing seems a 180 from what he is saying in the above; since it seems he was forced out, the above, and other things he’s said, sound like sour grapes, but we all have our stems of them, so no judgement here, just an observation.

  12. Scottmouse@ptd.net'
    Scott Mousley June 26, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

    Cody’s insight on survival is one of the best. I believe cody’s Desert (dry climate) skills are amazing! His calm meticulous approach is more in tune with outdoor emergency skills, to help a person survive. I would like to take a course from him, or an instructor wig his calm demeanor. I hope to see him with his own show, or Youtube channel soon.

  13. patbrogan@yahoo.com'
    Pat June 26, 2014 at 3:13 pm #

    Great article. I’ve followed the show and learned so much over the years. I’ve been on mountains in snow storms, racing in the ocean and being dismasted so I really value the learning from the show. I’ve struggled though to get past Cody’s stubborness on ice and mountains with the no shoes.

  14. robertcandrews@yahoo.com'
    Robert June 26, 2014 at 3:19 pm #

    Good stuff. Great one on one.

    Here’s hoping none of us EVER have to resort to primitive survival techniques to get out alive BUT should we have to, best to know how to start a fire by rubbing your ass cheeks together *)

  15. Steve June 26, 2014 at 3:21 pm #

    There is no need to defile other TV hosts. He talks about respect but shows none to certain people. Don’t get me wrong I am a fan of Cody and believe he is one of the most knowledgeable survival experts but ripping apart other experts is a turn off. If you want to bring up experience and a resume look at Bear Grylls. Honestly read into what the man has accomplished. He got caught up with “Survival Entertainment” early on and fell for Discovery’s b.s. He also left the network. Good read but come on Cody show some class, and this is coming from a fan…..

    • Anonymous June 27, 2014 at 12:26 am #

      Lundin was not “ripping other experts.” None of the people he mentioned by name or implied are “experts,” but survival actors.

  16. John June 26, 2014 at 3:26 pm #

    I love Cody, wish he was still doing tv.
    One question the interview raises though; if no one had to produce credentials to be considered for the show, why was Dave fired? Why the negative response from Cody when they “found out” that Dave “misrepresented” his credentials & experience??
    Makes no sense.

    • hoopatang@gmail.com'
      Carrie B June 27, 2014 at 6:07 am #

      Excellent point. Cody was *extremely* vocal about Dave’s credentials and lying on his “application” when Dave was forced out of the show; yet here he is saying that absolutely no one ever had to submit credentials or applications.
      So the question becomes: was he lying then, or is he lying now?

      He says he’s never watched the show, then gripes about a screenshot displaying a rabbit and said it was posted before the rabbit was even shown on the episode.
      How can he have never watched the show when he knew that part of the episode hadn’t aired yet?

      I firmly believe that Cody has amazing skills. Reputation management and being graceful post-firing aren’t two of them – especially when he can’t keep his “facts” straight.

      • wrench23@gmail.com'
        Vince June 29, 2014 at 4:27 pm #

        Carrie B,
        I don’t suppose that any of his friends, business associates or fans could have pointed it out and sent him the info? No, that would be too logical, therefore you make the assumption that he is lying.

        Time and time again, Hollywood actors talk about not having seen the end result of their projects and cite many of the same reasons that were reported in this interview. It is really not a far fetched notion to accept.

        Mr. Lundin comes across on television as well as this interview as one who speaks his mind without regard for what may be socially acceptable. I remember being taught as a child, that the truth hurts and if you do not have anything good to say, keep it to yourself unless you are asked.
        Well, he was asked in this interview and he gave his side of the events and his opinions of his industry which included his own feelings and desires for the format.

        As for your other assertions of his lying, I also disagree. You nor can say with any certainty that he is lying. Unless you are really one of those “pseudonyms” and are actually privy to the true facts. Why hide and not just tell us all who you are and the facts that you are privy to? In which case you would now have no credibility.

      • Thoramir@hotmail.com'
        Bill93 July 4, 2014 at 8:24 pm #

        Cody said he supplied credentials but that they weren’t checked out. Dave supplied credentials that were partially faslified, and they obviously weren’t checked out either because Dave’s lies weren’t discovered by the network they were discovered by “Stolen Valor” folks; people who have dedicated themselves to outing people who falsely claim to have military service or exaggerate what military service they do have for personal gain. Just because Cody and Dave provided resumes doesn’t mean anyone actually read them. Discovery only cared what was on the resume after one it’s host was publicly discredited. Obviously, they didn’t learn their lesson because the same people also got on Joe Teti’s case because he also falsely claimed to be a combat veteran.

        The screen shot with the rabbit was sent by a fan, he has quite an active following that keeps in touch with him on Facebook and elsewhere.

        • jenx42@yahoo.com'
          Jen September 3, 2014 at 8:54 pm #

          Thanks for that info. I like well informed people who set the record straight on the heals of poorly informed comments!

  17. jmbushcraft@gmail.com'
    Tim Smith June 26, 2014 at 3:26 pm #

    Great interview. Thanks to you and Cody for doing it and posting it. It’s interesting to hear his views on the survival tv industry, which gets larger every week. Hopefully Cody’s tv career isn’t over.

    • Chris June 26, 2014 at 4:45 pm #

      Thanks Tim. Means a lot coming from you. Will be in your neck of the woods late July or early August. Will give you a call and hope we can visit again. Best, Chris

  18. azlaydey@gmail.com'
    Bobbi Wicks June 26, 2014 at 4:10 pm #

    I’ve known Cody for about 30 years. And he DOES know what he preaches and teaches. He is very serious about the information and skills he shares with people.

  19. ohheckyeah1@ymail.com'
    ohheckyeah June 26, 2014 at 4:30 pm #

    One of the things I never see on the survival shows is what to take with you when you are going to wander around in the great outdoors. I had a hiking class that prepared me better than any of the shows.

    My husband I lived in Arizona and often drove and/or hiked in very desolate areas. We were always prepared with food, water, blankets, lighters, matches, first aid kit, knife, hatchet, even small gun, etc. We left our supplies in the truck all the time (except for the gun) and changed out the food and water frequently. We never needed most of the supplies, but you never know.

    I agree with Cody that the shows are irresponsible and dangerous and the Dual Survival show is becoming increasingly so. It’s sad.

  20. docholiday1019@yahoo.com'
    Dan Holiday June 26, 2014 at 5:06 pm #

    Cody is what he is, only people who don’t have a clue would call him “know-it- all !
    When you know a great deal about something and are willing to share it , you will have a commanding and superior attitude . That attitude is called experience and
    know how . When you call Cody know-it-all, Your just saying he knows more than
    you. I’ve been on primitive skills, bushcrafting ( known in my day as wood lore) , and
    survival trips and training. These last in time from 2 weeks to 1 month ‘ and I wish Cody
    would have been along to teach. All this being said, your a dumb-ass.

  21. cbwhisonant@carolina.rr.com'
    Cindy June 26, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

    A know-it-all is the very last thing that Cody could be called. My 19 year old son spent 8 days in the AZ desert with Cody learning the primitive survival skills that Cody is so skilled at. My son came away with invaluable knowledge as well as a complete respect for Cody. I also met Cody when the group returned from the wilderness and there isn’t a more humble, kind person than him. What you seem to be misreading in calling him a know-it-all is Cody’s passion for what he does. Still don’t believe me? Go see for yourself ~ take a trip on the wild side and spend a week in the wild with Cody. Do you have the guts? Peace.

  22. jeffy3151@yahoo.com'
    Jeff K. June 26, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

    Thanks Chris, this is a great piece, and a very interesting topic to bring to the surface. I’ll be interested to follow this in the media now that you’ve pulled back the curtain.

  23. gilmore.ross@gmail.com'
    Ross Gilmore June 26, 2014 at 5:53 pm #

    Thank you for obtaining this interview Chris. I enjoyed reading it, and I think it reflected much of what we already know.

    Cody is absolutely right. The survival show industry is a complete joke. People are put on TV, and given a few pages from whatever survival book was available at the book store, and are told to start filming. The result is people pretending to show skills that they pretend to know. After acquiring the fame, those people then go on to create back stories and resumes for themselves which match the level of fame and “expertise” that was just placed in their hands. Guys who I know couldn’t start a fire with a box of matches and a can of gasoline, are now spinning stories about how they were born woodsmen precisely because of this phenomenon.

    To show you how sad the sate of affair is, I have been offered parts in six survival shows just this year. Me! My only qualifications are that I get a certain amount of traffic on my blog, and that I have a potentially interesting accent. I know I am not qualified to be in such a position, but they don’t. What is worse is that some other random person will get contacted after I decline, and they will have even less skills, but a larger desire for fame, and they will take the part. And the big joke continues.

    I understand why Cody feels the need to speak out against certain “instructors”. I know he feels very strongly about who should be teaching, and those people clearly do not qualify, neither in his book, nor in mine. Unfortunately, those people have many fans, and those fans will backlash, as we have seen here. Cody has a tough road to follow. On one hand, it is important that he continue to speak out against fame hungry amateurs with limited skills, being presented by the media as experts. On the other hand, he will continue to suffer attacks for it.

    All that being said, i think Cody is fighting a losing battle. We no longer have, or accept a top down education system. Learning is a lot more fluid these days, and there is no way to get around it. Even so, I still think it is important that people who know what they are talking about speak up. Otherwise the internet and every other media source starts to get clouded with half baked ideas and theories which ultimately diminish knowledge and jeopardize lives.

    It is nice if we could all get along, but not at the cost of poor quality information being thought by charismatic people with little practical knowledge.

    • Chris June 26, 2014 at 6:04 pm #

      “”All that being said, i think Cody is fighting a losing battle. We no longer have, or accept a top down education system. Learning is a lot more fluid these days, and there is no way to get around it.””

      Thanks for the comment Ross. I agree with your statement about education being a problem. And if there is anything that needs a strong foundation, it is survival. That’s why we list the schools and books we do here at the website. Losing battle, in today’s society, hard to argue. However, if it saves one person, it’s more than worth it. Best regards, Chris

  24. rod1959vanzuiden@yahoo.com'
    rhonda June 26, 2014 at 6:18 pm #

    I love Cody for sticking to his guns.He’s not fake like most people. Love you Cody and I really needed closure on why you left. I knew it before I read it. Us ladies will miss the man who loves Beaver.

  25. dolphinmarty@aol.com'
    Marty June 26, 2014 at 6:54 pm #

    I enjoy Cody’s take on things and he’s very knowledgeable despite some questionable personal preferences. However as stated before he can come across as a bit of a know-it-all and be hard headed and one way. There are a few things from the interview that strike me as a little off as well. I think maybe we all need to put our BS filters on and we’ll see that like most things in life there were some agendas here.

  26. kristin.shirley61@gmail.com'
    Kristin June 26, 2014 at 6:56 pm #

    I 100% agree with Cody Lundin. From the first episode of the first season the senarios were about the adverage person on a vacation gone wrong. IE: Photographer on a day hike, Fishermen running out of gas. Tourists on Safari getting stranded or separated from their group, etc. The adverage person would not be trying to take down large game to eat. They would be looking for water and trying to stay warm and get help. I watched every episode and the senarios were all the same with adverage people. Discovery was using the show for pure entertainment with action characters while Cody was trying to be educational to the adverage person with NO Military Experience. The adverage person would not be scaling 90 degree cliffs to go straight down. They would look for easier and safer ways to get down. I have used some of what was taught by Cody and Dave Canterbury on camping trips just to see if they worked. Drinking water from a Bamboo stalk, collecting due on leaves, eating grasshoppers and ants. I have even tried a primitive way of making fire with no success. I learned one main thing and that is to have a small survival kit with me at all times especially firemaking supplies. I learned that from Cody’s book and NOT the TV show. I have found that from Cody’s Books and Not the TV show that I will do very well with the dangers I get myself into. Mainly is do NOT get yourself into danger. What one must remember is that these are just TV shows and that there is a crew with these folks that will pull them out of jams if needed and to go off and try to do what these TV shows depict is Just Plain Stupid and, well, you cannot fix Stupid. Mr. Lundin whatever your next venture is I will be there to watch. I am a fisher woman and a huntress. I hunt and fish for food and only kill what I eat. My husband and I are also homesteaders who grow their own food and trying to live off the land as much as possible. I do not kill snakes or spiders or any other living thing unless we eat it so it’s life is not wasted.

  27. jpgilthepope@hotmail.com'
    John P. June 26, 2014 at 7:15 pm #

    Thank you for this article. I feel like it needs to be said. Out side of a few training courses and SERE school, military aren’t in any way experts in survival. The goal is kind of how cody describes as modern survival skills for the military that have those jobs. I agree and hope that the industry needs change and hopes it does soon.

  28. Brandon June 26, 2014 at 7:21 pm #

    Good interview Chris! It’s a good topic that, unfortunately, no everyone understands. Thanks for sharing!

    • Chris June 26, 2014 at 7:35 pm #

      Thanks Brandon. I know you do!

  29. spitstar762@yahoo.com'
    zee June 26, 2014 at 7:47 pm #

    I said it on Cody’s facebook page and I will say it here. It is reckless what Discovery does. I am not a survival instructor, by no means an expert but I know I will get out alive by what I have been taught. I could spot it in Dual Survival myself and rushing into a situation most of the time gets you dead. Cody’s level thinking shows a lot more then most watchers realize. I also believed the farce showing Cody as a bad guy was BS! As I said before Cody Keep up your great work.

  30. vinnyrcv@gmail.com'
    Vinny June 26, 2014 at 9:56 pm #

    I don’t no Jack about survival but I do know the ways of profiteers and intuitively knew Cody was the real deal and many more know but the masses are asses and want to be entertained and so it goes :-(
    PS :I remember much of what Cody taught and will take what nature offers me but……I hope I don’t need to use this knowledge but think I just might before I leave this rock :-)

  31. nechstar@gmail.com'
    Chad June 26, 2014 at 11:11 pm #

    Thank you all for the comments! Keep them coming ;-)

  32. Anonymous June 26, 2014 at 11:55 pm #

    I liked Cody and Dave in the show but Joe seems to be a ass.
    I wonder if there is any bad blood between him and dave?

  33. wescott905@gmail.com'
    David Wescott June 27, 2014 at 12:57 am #

    In the past month I’ve gotten quires from History, Discovery, National Geographic, the Weather Channel, BBC and a few unaffiliated “producers” looking for “talent.” My common response has gotten to be “You ought to be ashamed of yourself for the crap you are putting on the air. I refuse to be a part of your human freak show. Sorry. But you would consider doing something of value, I’d gladly help you out.” I’m not sure what it will take to get their attention, but it seems the tide isn’t being turned right now. Survival drama is too hot a ticket for them to ignore I guess.

    • Chris June 27, 2014 at 1:18 am #

      Thanks Dave! So many look up to you, it means a lot!

    • gilmore.ross@gmail.com'
      Ross Gilmore June 27, 2014 at 8:34 am #

      The sad thing is that after you told them to get lost, they went to someone else who lacks the skills, but loves the idea of being on TV. I’ve been contacted by those same networks with the exact same line. The fact that they make no distinction between someone with your expertise and an amateur like me, is frightening. It’s even more frightening that the person who finally says “yes” will know even less.

      • Chris June 27, 2014 at 8:58 am #

        good point Ross

  34. Jake June 27, 2014 at 3:45 am #

    My suspicions were correct. I respect Cody’s path and I believe it is all our responsibility to spread the message.

  35. amgumpel@gmail.com'
    Allison June 27, 2014 at 8:44 am #

    First of all I would like to thank Chris Noble for setting up this interview with Cody. I was a big fan of Dual Survival and have read all of Cody’s books. I saw what was happening in the show, what Cody was taking about. They were trying to push the show to become more exciting for the ratings. TV producers will tend to do that, its just their way. That being said, being able to watch Codys skill set on TV helped expose a lot of people to the way survival skills should be. I would love to spend time training in the primitive skills, however my life just does not allow for it. Cody brought some of that training into my home and I appreciate the show and hope he plans on starting another show.

  36. Snowladyds@frontier.com'
    DierdreStrass June 27, 2014 at 9:18 am #

    Right on! From the beginning we knew these shows had some producers hand stirring the pot! We knew Cody was the real deal …. We even mention his name every time we start a fire … Cody is a god in that arena! Back to serious – that final show… And it was the final one we will watch … It was so obvious they railroaded it to bash Cody … Very pathetic. We will watch for Cody in the future.

  37. nechstar@gmail.com'
    Chad June 27, 2014 at 9:31 am #

    Well said ‘Uncle Dave’ and spot on Ross G.

    If we could unite the ‘Elders’ and familiarize them with a DSLR and basic software, there could be a discovery-free, totally independent, group of survival instructors that the masses would REALLY want.

    Heck, let people pay them to make instructional outdoor education videos and articles by using crowdsourcing venues like Kickstarter.

    If my time and gas were paid for, I’d do it my damn self. Start out East and work my way West. Watts to Wescott and everyone in between could publish anything they want all while keeping the drama out and the CONTEXT in…

    *sighs

    :D

  38. Gypsy Jack June 27, 2014 at 11:13 am #

    Tom Edison once told me (in between big bites of blackberry pie), “Jack my boy, some day folks are gonna have a hard time telling the difference between real life and them moving picture stories of mine.” Now, Tom was real bad about over stating things, but every once in while he’d hit the nail right on the head.

    • Chris June 27, 2014 at 11:57 am #

      It is truly an honor to have Gypsy Jack’s wisdom grace the pages of Master Woodsman again. We know you have some knowledge of the TV Business.

  39. Ricardo.J.Sierra@gmail.com'
    Ricardo Sierra June 27, 2014 at 11:31 am #

    I hope this article gets around to the prepper and survival communities as a good warning about the predatory ‘Survival Show’ industry. Some of the things that people who haven’t had experience with them is this:

    One: They don’t care about you. They don’t care about your ‘agenda’ or your philosophy. If you try to share all your philosophy, it will just end up on the cutting room floor. Unless you start talking crazy. At that point, look out.

    Two: They want drama. They don’t want to show you getting along with your fellow survivors. That won’t sell advertising, and it won’t make good TV, (in their opinion). Yes, to some degree, they have a point. I mean, PBS would have millions of more viewers if their shows had more drama in them rather than a soft voiced narrator talking about birds, but these shows want a whole different type of reaction and fan. So, they want you crying. They want you arguing, and they want you upset with your partner, so they can magnify your emotional responses and sell that to their viewers.

    Three: You won’t necessarily get rich or suddenly have tons of students in your ‘survival school’. Television fans are not survival students. You won’t suddenly have fifty students in your next fire making class. Many participants don’t even have a website set up to capture fan emails and connect with their fans, so your short lived fame doesn’t mean you are on the gravy train. Maybe if you actually win Survivor, but other than that, you’re on your own. And no, the networks don’t care.

    Four: They will say just about anything to get you on the show, and then they will try to twist things around to get you to do things that aren’t in your agreement, and you will have to stand there and say no to a whole camera crew, producers and handlers. Can you do that? It’s hard to do, and they will put a lot of pressure on you to make compromises. You have to be very, very strong in your convictions, or if you cave, you will look like a jackass on camera. And you will know you ‘sold out’, whatever. Not the end of the world, but it’s a personal and professional risk.

    Five: The show’s producers have no idea of what they are doing. Many of them just want to have a crazy, high ratings show so they can add that to their resume and then move on to produce other shows that will make them more money. They would film their grandmother dying if they thought it would help their careers. They only get credit for ratings. There is no award in TV for integrity, either publicly or monetary, so, the riskier the show, the more viewers, the more it helps them. They won’t hesitate to throw anyone under the bus for their careers, including Cody, or you. And no, you won’t ‘change them’ or ‘convince them’ to do it differently. Their bosses higher up are just as bad, and these small fry are trying to become those big bosses, so, it’s not gonna happen.

    There’s more I could add, and there are a lot of things I would love to ask Cody as well, but let’s just say that, unless we start our own Survival Channel on TV, nothing will change. And since most of the primitive survival gang doesn’t need gear sponsors (is a Willow Tree going to pay for advertising on our shows to get more publicity? No!), we won’t have much luck with getting corporate sponsors, so, it’s going to be a rocky road to success! And most of us aren’t wealthy or in it for the money, either, so no one is going to bankroll this kind of project, so, we’ll all just have to see where this all goes and take it day by day, I guess.

    Good luck to all of you out there, doing your thing and learning your skills, etc. Glad you’re out there!

    Ricardo

    • Chris June 27, 2014 at 11:53 am #

      Great comment Ricardo!

  40. jesserumbel@gmail.com'
    jesse June 27, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

    I personally liked and connected with all of the people that have hosted this show. Myself Being from the military I appreciate all of the points of view. Be it from Dave, Cody, Joe or Matt. In my opinion they all brought knowledge to the table in a way I could understand. In the end I wish it would have worked out better for Cody and Dave. But why is it that Dave accepted a personal responsibly when he was fired and didn’t bash the fanbase but Cody did? Furthermore why did Discovery go after Cody? Its not that I don’t believe Cody but it seems both parties never got along. Its a shame because I thought Cody carried the show with both Dave and Joe but all three provided a value. As of now it seems Matt carries the show but Joe seems to get along better with him. Still I hope to see both Cody and Dave on TV someday in a context they would like to portray.

  41. bohica519@aol.com'
    Bohicab Bob June 27, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    I watched “Dual Survival” because of Cody. After the first few episodes it became clear to me that Cody knew his stuff. I wish Cody continued success.

    What’s the big deal about going shoeless often? I grew up in Hawaii and, if it weren’t for my parents hounding me to put shoes on to go to school, church, etc., I never wore shoes. As kids we had contests to see who could weave the largest number of common pins into the bottoms of our feet – I usually won. We kids could play basketball in the summer on an asphalt basketball court, or walk on cut glass out in the sticks with no consequences while hiking, or climb down 800+ foot rocky cliffs to get to the best fishing spots, or walk for miles on all kinds of volcanic/lava rocks on the shoreline – all barefoot.

  42. repsfo@prodigy.net'
    Rich June 27, 2014 at 7:45 pm #

    I agree with Cody’s comments in the interview.

    I have reviewed Cody’s books and think they are some of the best.
    I also think Mors is one of the few real deals.

    I have taught Wilderness Survival Skills for 25 years, but not for a living, I would never expect to be paid to teach someone how to keep themselves alive. I have also been a volunteer wilderness SAR coordinator for many years. I teach in the manner of Mors Kochanski, I’m not an entertainer, I’m an instructor. I’m not here to entertain you I tell those I’m working with, I’m here to pass on skills and knowledge.

    Cody should use the power of the internet and YouTube to do short instructional clips. Dave from the original Dual show does this, Cody used to. Yes Dave does promote his businesses in the process but I don’t have a problem with that at all.

  43. Ray June 28, 2014 at 8:33 pm #

    This is a fantastic article! It puts everything to rest regarding what really happened on Dual Survival. I used to watch Survivorman (love Les Stroud), but really became interested in survival after watching the first two seasons of Dual Survival. I read Cody’s books, and Cody Lundin is the real deal. Being a fan of the show (Dual Survival), all you need is common sense to realize that he knows what he is talking about and knows what he is doing. Just when he speaks, you immediately learn something. He explains everything in intricate detail. He also explained on more than one occasion why he does not wear pants or shoes. He has also explained that he does NOT RECOMMEND anyone to do it. So I don’t know why that issue keeps coming up. He also teaches not to take any unnecessary risks unless you have to and have no choice. Everything he teaches is safe, believable, and MAKES SENSE, and it is the proper way to go about any survival situation. He is an encyclopedia on survival. He is not a “know it all”, he just simply knows what he is doing. thanks for posting the article!

  44. jda1776@hotmail.com'
    Jerry June 28, 2014 at 9:11 pm #

    I am a military veteran having served in the US Air Force Security Police and the US Army 82nd Airborne and I have to say that many many many times I am embarassed by the actions of Joe. His constant screaming “you’re jepordizing our mission” got on my nerves and made me laugh. The mission was to survive. Not to engage an enemy. Not to take out a wild boar and celebrate the kill as if he had become some wild feral creature himself. I liked Cody’s sense of purpose. His calmness. I liked Dave’s seriousness with a sense of humor thrown in. I like the new guy as someone who is at peace with himself and his surrondings. I especially like when he takes the time to appreciate his surrondings and his flute playing. Joe is an arrogant ass who wants to make a war picture. His aggressive warrior mindset is going to get someone seriously hurt. When at war or in an E & E (escape and evade) situation then I can see the need for his attitude but even then the calmness of Cody and Matt are needed. I hope that Matt will stand up to Joe more and share more of his skills and mindset on this show. Cody, thank you for your books and for doing the show.

  45. wescott905@gmail.com'
    David Wescott July 2, 2014 at 12:03 am #

    I just got another inquiry about wanting to find professional trackers and do a show about trackers doing their thing. Look at the credentials of this producer that is going to show the world how trackers work.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1643782/?ref_=fn_al_nm_5

    I’m sure he is a fine person and well-intentioned. But this shows you the mix of shows that survival drama is finding itself mixed up with, and the people who are positioned to produce these shows.

  46. karenrnadeau@gmail.com'
    Karen July 2, 2014 at 7:52 pm #

    I hope Joe boy grows up soon… he irritates the hell out of me with all his wining.. We might should send him cheese to go with the wine. If you think you know everything, you don’t. Wow… I would so fire him if he was my boyfriend.

  47. lferullo31laf@gmail.com'
    Lori-Anne Ferullo July 2, 2014 at 10:03 pm #

    Love you Cody I had always knew what was up an I know that Joe is the BIGGEST clown going that knows nothing about nothing I can’t stand him for a second.

  48. Gun-nut July 12, 2014 at 3:53 pm #

    Thank you Chris and Cody. Great interview. Cody, I would love to swatch a true survival show you produce and star in. A no bs helpful tips straight how to, survival show. I don’t need help with cliff jumping or under water cave diving. Just what to do, how to do it best, what to do first, what not to do. There are many people out there watching for helpful tips and not necessarily crazy action. I don’t mean to disrespect military personnel, they are great. But they are taught to get a mission done. That’s it. Not survive or do it the safest way. Just accomplish the main objective. That’s not the type of show I’m looking for. I’m glad you departed with them Cody. You are better without them. Unfortunate for them they are not going to do so great without you. Although Matt is a great guy, he to is not a 3 day emergency escape instructor. If I had to go live in the wilderness for a year, he’d be more than welcome to come. I look forward to seeing where you go next Cody. And I’m sure plenty of people will love to follow you. Keep us posted. Good luck with all your endeavors.

  49. sasweb@sbcglobal.net'
    Steve July 26, 2014 at 10:59 am #

    Chris, I read this post when it appeared in June. But I forgot to say, “thank you” for the fascinating interview. It was very well done.

    – Steve

    • Chris July 26, 2014 at 11:22 am #

      Thank you Steve. You have a great site, just added you to our blog roll.

  50. jae308@live.com'
    jae July 30, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

    Conserve energy. Think. Plan. A week without food while not comfortable is not going to kill you.
    Depending on location a few days without water might.
    Military mindset and military survival are based on combat requirements over the whole globe. Do not be stupid, gear your survival knowledge to the region you spend ninety percent of your time. Most survival shows are a poor joke based on common sense alone. Cody may or may not be the best there is but his approach wins hands down if you intend to survive. If not! Go for the macho bs

  51. prolab@gmail.com'
    Rob Belyea August 7, 2014 at 6:53 pm #

    Cody, Thanks for the interview and candid explanation of the workings of TV survival products.
    I’m not sure many would be surprised to hear these shows are faked like the rest of reality TV.
    Best wishes for the future. I hope there is a project that will bring you back and give us your no-nonsense advice and real-life help. You are missed.

  52. willsours@gmail.com'
    Will S August 8, 2014 at 11:40 pm #

    Cody you were great on the show and I liked DS better than all the others. My daughter and I always thought Joe was a dumb showboating grunt, but, he did provide some entertainment/balance to the show. I’m extremely curious what all went down for them to can you or if if it was just because you wouldn’t drink piss and what not, but I think that’s what made the show interesting, hearing the differing points of view and letting us decide what makes sense. It was good TV, and I’ve watched the more recent couple episodes without you and as for entertainment value, the verdicts definitely not in yet, but I think it was a very poor choice on their part to get rid of you regardless for numerous reasons. I worked in the TV industry briefly, not for as lucrative/other adjective here a network I would say as Discovery, but I got enough of a feel for the industry to know its full of (expletive)s. Good luck! And I look forward to seeing your new show.

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